Page 2 - Global Dimming

I saw that special on TV

Necromanced, but it's an interesting subject nonetheless, so why not?

Anyways, Anubis, you do know how nuclear power plants work, right? They simply use nuclear reactions to heat uranium to very high temperatures and then they use that heat instead of burning coal or using water or wind. It's all the same, it just sounds cool because it has a radioactive sticker on it. Nuclear power is not just electricity coming out of one end of a rod of purified uranium

And as for producing hydrogen from nuclear energy, of course it's possible. The problem is the same as it is now: it's not profitable. You need to put in more energy breaking hydrogen away from the oxygen than you actually get out from burning the hydrogen, so it's a loss of useable energy overall. That's the problem. Even if we could set up solar panels all over the place, it's still more profitable to take that power and use it to heat homes and run people's lights, for example. I guess one of us just needs to get into the hydrogen business. Hey, build it and they will come

yes, i DO know that they simply use the same old inefficient forms of gas exchange by heating water.

All we can really do is try and push flexfuel vehicles and mandate that every gas station has at least 1 ethanol pump by 2008. Gradually consumers will move over to the ethanol fuels because its cheaper for them, and gasoline will be phased out. this will be great for the farmers because, suddenly, we arent putting billions of dollars a day into the saudi's pockets, we are putting it in to the pockets of the american farmers, who have been struggling for a while. after 10 years the cost of refining the corn will go down as new techniques are made, and all will be well. and btw, fuck the environment i dont give a shit

The Chinese have started putting low rpm turbines on rivers without dams in a test to generate power these are like wind mills with angled vanes very interesting.

mmm... not too good for us kayakers though .

lol.

Like a lot of ideas ethanol is no long term solution to our energy needs. Right now ethanol for fuel use is consuming about 20% of the corn production. You can see that there is a real limit to how much more can fuel can be produced using corn.

Ethanol seems more like one of those feel good solutions like wind power and solar power that sound good but not what is needed for long term energy needs. The jury is still out on fuel cells and hydrogen fuel. They may be viable if the technology and economic hurdles can be overcome. If the US really wants to lower their petroleum needs they need to start building nuclear power plants. It is a waste to be using fossil fuels for large energy production. I think even France is using nuclear power plants to produce something like 90% of their electrical needs.

Someone in an early post stated that their were only 30 years of fossil fuels left. It's kind of funny that I heard the same thing 30 years ago. It is true that a lot of the current reserves are too expensive to extract but economics may someday change that. I bet the real answer to how much fossil fuels are left is more in the 300-500 year range.

There is a lot of untapped gas and petroleum off the US coasts. Their is a lot of resistance to explore these. The realty is that if we do not claim these reserves other countries will. Their is nothing to stop them from taking the gas and petroleum in the areas in international waters. There was a news item a week ago where Cuba was involved in doing that. As demand rises faster than the supply and prices remain high it will be economical for countries to look for oil and gas anywhere they can find it. Won't the envirionmentalists look foolish if they stop the US from drilling off our shores and the Chinese just come and take it all right under our noses. This is not farfetched as you might think because the Chinese demands for oil and gas is rising rapidly. Why do you think they are being so nice to Iran? Their huge need for oil is driving their politics.

and there tyou have it ladys and gents.

"there's oil left somewhere, we just gotta find it".

bah!

you go find your oil under the tundra! you go burn it!

you go destroy what's left of our crippled planet! and then you will see WHY people are so up in arms about this!!

ADDING CARBON TO THE ATMOSPHERE IS NOT GOOD!

no other way of looking at it!

Started with a turbine RAY HEGLAND made for powering lights at our swimming hole to keep the kids safe that was made from a squirrel cage fan conectted to a system of gears (he has also made them with the belt type but it is not as good) to a surplus computer tape drive motor so that the water from the river poured into the top of the fan and came out a hole which was cut in the bottom of the fan housing making a waterwheel.
This system charges 3 to 4 amps each there are 6 of them into 8-12 volt batteries, 24 hours per day!
It's easy power, cost next to nothing to build, and for 2 years NO maintenance.

Sorry for the slow reply. I just came across your response today.

20 years ago I was an avid environamentalist. I was a regular participant at Earth Day. A couple of times I even manned one of the booths. I was also a regular member of the Sierra Club and was even a officer one year. I fondly remember the many hikes I was able to participate in. Environmental issues discussed at local meetings mainly related to state issues.

Then I grew up. I saw things in a new light now. The solutions put forth by environmentalists occasionally had merit but most did not. When I stopped blindly believeing the hype and actually looked closely at the assumptions and so called evidence everthing fell apart. Having a BS in Physics and minor in Astronomy helped a lot in evaluating the evidence. I also learned a lot in the 15 years I worked at a NASA field center supporting engineering and scientific projects there. Sorry to have burst your bubble. Reality has a way of doing that.

So how do you see these things different then?

believe what you like.

Britain is having one of the hottest summer son record. we have widespread drought in the south and hardly get any rain any more.

the americas are getting worse and worse hurricanes.

the global ice-caps are shrinking.

the alpine glaciers are shrinking (i've seen first hand the difference a year makes!)

desert area everywhere is expanding.

there is global warming. whether we directly cause it or not. and it will affect us.

people go on about how it's all natural and we're only adding a tiny percentage of the carbon emissions...

but that doesn't stop the fact that it's happening! and that doesn't stop the fact that humans require a very specific environment, and day by day there's less and less of it!

couple that with the deforestation we've had over the last 100 years plus, meaning slowly but surely the carbon has been building up.

change is not good! not when it involves the earth.

It too easy to let emotions and wishfull thinking slant your views. It is also easy to join the herd mentality and assume something is true just bacause everyone seems to believe it or the same thing get repeated a million times.

People need to stop believing the hype and misinformation that is rampid in the media and especially on the internet. Someone recently gave me proof of their assertion with a google search which gave numerous links to news stories. Critical and logical thought easily placed the sources as suspect when 99% of the sources were repeating the same misinformation that after some more reliable sources showed that the information in these 99% was an obvious attempt to distort the truth and produce a more sensational headline.

The world is full of people and groups with a viewpoint they wish to propigate. Lying, stretching the truth, making up data to add support, or hiding information if it proves troublesome seems to be more important to some people if it serves their agenda. The truth is either heralded or attacked depending upon whether it supports the agenda or not.

This is the world I finally came to see. It was very troubling to me when this reality took hold. Twenty ago I was an avid environmentalist and embraced the hype then like many do now. Twenty years the following was part of the hype:
* We would run out of oil within 30 years
* Alternate fuel sources were needed to prevent catastophre
* Polution if left unchecked would soon destroy the earths fragile ecosystem
* Population growth if left unchecked would lead to mass starvation

Take the first three and substitute Global Warming for Polution and what your have is the same hype today. Note Global Warming as hyped is just the end result of one type of polution.

With Global Warming everyone seems to be running around like chicken little and demand action before the sky falls in. Never mind that anecdotal or fragmented evidence is held up as proof. Real scientific and testable evidence is always hard to hard to come by and usually expensive. Where is the cry for this when that is really what is needed now. Feel good solution like the Kyoto Protocol are heralded by the masses as the soltion to Global Warming. How many peeople here have really looked at what Kyoto Protocol calls for? I have done a little looking and was dismayed when I realized that it was no real solution at all.

People that question Global Warming are usually attacked by its supporters. All us detractors want is a real soution not a feel good one. Wasting trillions of dollars on a dubvious solution solves nothing. Since the there is still not enough direct evidence to find the real cause of Global Warming then I find that it is quite premature to place the total blame on humans. More research may just show that a natural cycle is the major cause. Man may simply be making the process move a little faster othewise. If human production of greenhouse gases are totally stopped Global Warming may simply slow but not stop. If that is the case then resources would be better spent preparing for the inevitalble changes in coming centuries. Remember the best decisions are usually made when enough information is available to make a logicl decision. Using guesswork or emotion is a poor substitute.

The reason for the scientific method and the rise of logical thinking are to help lead people to find real knowledge and avoid the many pitfalls that will slow or block progresss. If one does not to use these tools then all is left is illogical thinking and emotion. Anything is possible to some if they find it reasonable or it make sense in some illogical way.