Page 3 - Can Computers Think?

Creativity=Intelligence,
A computer can not create anything new.

thats where i was a few posts back

I enjoy these sort of discussions. Thanks mrps2 for bringing up this topic.

It certainly is a creative idea thus interesting discussion. It also, isn't dangerous at all (i.e. terrorism, politics, seatbelt, drinking, sex, abortion) and is very unlikely to get moved into the flames. So, keep the discussion flowing.

All in all, I just wanted to point out that this has been a very provocative thread and still is.

Thanks everybody for taking part and contributing in the discussion. Let's continue...

PS: I also plan to bring up a/few topic(s), ideas that would be as provocative like this in the near future.

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Creativity indeed is one of the main attributes of humankind. Another nebulous topic; thus creativity can't be proved, modeled and emulated.

* A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
* A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
* A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

---Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics

those three laws of robotics sound like the 3 laws of i-robot - that movie with will smith.

anyway, what im now saying madhyena (i've opened another little neurological connection in my brain on the previous page) is that IF a device can be made that performs in the same manner as a brain cell, then heaps can be put together to make a "brain circuit diagram". this would have more memory capacity than a human obviously, but it would also be more creative, inventive, more affectionate, caring, etc as the circuit works exactly the same as a brain would, with the difference that 100% of the "artificial brain" can be used

the big IF is that IF a device can be made that behaves the same way as a brain cell - notice how ive said device, not electronic component. who knows what devices will be invented/discovered in the future. maybe electronics will be obselete one day? the device used to make the artificial brain/ai may not be electronic.

Considering that i robot is loosely based on the short stories of Asimov compiled in a book of the same name, and the Three Laws, were included in that compilation...

You forgot the Zeroth Law of Robotics-- A robot may not injure humanity, or, through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.

Of course, it was not a programmed law...

Mvagusta, actually threads like these require both creativity and knowledge/intelligence. That basically means that we're strengthening the neurological connections (neuro-brain) between our "two brains" (left & right), plus, of course, also newer brain cells are grown.

Your idea is very creative; I especially like that part where you've pointed out that it can be "not electronic component" too. Yes, it makes very much sense. Looking back in the history of electronics the evolution is astonishing. Reading your post I've thought of the science "genetics," which should have a very important part in developing these "artificial brains." It could, for example, in close relationship with cloning. Of course, if cloning is developed and the success rate gets close to 100% then further modifications can be added, for example "doping" these "artificial brains;" -- 'tuning,' 'overclocking' whilst is prepared and cloned. So basically when we get there, the technology could create super-human-beings-- even more than 100%+ brain power, mind capacity and then again, psychical power, strength and increasing lifespan also makes sense (hence apparently our cells are rebuilt on frequent basis so our 'bodies' could basically keep us running for hundreds of years).

Main problem would occur, of course, with overpopulation of our very own planet, Earth. Then again, perhaps, like you already mentioned, until we get there we could basically travel intern/extern-galaxies, too. This really got science-fictional, I agree.

The above mentioned events could happen in the future but, in my opinion, no way in the near future. Development of AI & AC could happen in the near future... but it requires a lot of hard work. Electronics play a very high role in current technology, so transition to "non-electronic device"'s can't be placed in the 'near-future' time-plane. First, we are going to reach an even higher level of electronics where basically in everything will be incorporated electronic devices, chips, ICs and we all will communicate via digital/analog signals.

Currently, according to newer studies we, human beings, barely use 3-5% of our total brain capacity. Extremely intelligent, smart, knowledgeable, high IQ --beyond genius (150+)-- persons scored like 5-6%, if I recall correctly the world record was somewhere around ~9%. That's mind-blowing. So that means we do not need "artificial brains," cloned overclocked, increased brain power minds. We should research and invent, find out ways, methods, technologies to fully use our brain-power and mental capacity.

Studies showed/proved that our subconscious mind can process ANY information that was viewed (with our eyes) even for a second. This is the basis for PhotoReading (developed by Paul Scheele), a highly popular mind-system, that is learnable and acquirable from very highly priced courses. It claims that with around ~70% comprehension reads can recall the read books, of course, with PhotoReading. PhotoReading is based on 2 pages per second. Readers need to learn to relax, meditate (basically lowering brainwaves to low alpha/high theta) and whilst in this extremely relaxed state, with a bit blurred vision --relaxed eye-gaze-- they start reading the material selected. A typical book with 300 of pages can be PhotoRead in 5 minutes or so. Problem is with recalling and as Paul Scheele would say "activating" the read material. Here Direct Learning (DL) plays a very important role; DL is one of the newest inventions of Accelerated Learning.

Skeptics, of course, attacked this and in many ways it was proved. No real need to debate here on this that it works or not, the main idea IS that we have more mental capacity and brain power than we can possibly imagine and think of it.

Win Wenger said "You are brighter than you think!" and it pretty much makes sense...

We aren't aware of billions of things that we "could do" but currently "we cannot." Decades ago the current technology was impossible and now we're hanging out at a computer forum, communicating from every part of the world. Things are like that. We currently cannot use more than 10%+ of our brains, because we weren't "thought" how to use, how to proceed; schools, parents, teachers couldn't 'teach' us hence they didn't knew either. Once we discover those newer methods/techniques will virtually change our world. A child could learn in a minutes more than his grandparent learned in his whole lifetime. We could get so close to a point where we're basically "downloading" information to our brains/minds, whilst in the appropriate state and using the newly invented techniques (who knows what they are?).

That's why I've stated at the very first time that "Nothing is impossible!", the big questions are "When?" and "How?".

Artificial Intelligence, as it now exists, is fairly primitive. Like I already mentioned, with consciousness, self-awareness and emotions there should be linked another attribute and that is the "survival instinct" -- desire to survive. It's the most basic attribute that made evolution of species possible. It can be located in every species, from animals up to humans. Then the question rises, if "perfect" survival instinct could be possible incorporated in a robot, how would that instinct work toward survival? The robot, of course, wouldn't need to reproduce. Survival instinct would be then closely linked with protection of self.

As a side note, mvagusta, why you want "more affectionate" artificial humans? That'd be close to the perfect woman, heh.

PS: Awesome discussion... keep up the great work.

you know i was thinking, electicity is part of nature, we learnt how to generate it, manipulate it, next thing you know we have cpu's...

another powerfull force available in nature, which we have very little idea on how to control, is a living cell. vegetable or animal. we're learning however and maybe one day we will end up with cloned brains in our pc's with "ai inside" stickers on the case

The claim that we only use a small percentage of our brain power is a myth.