Should I upgrade my ATI Radeon X800-XT PE video card?

I currently have an ATI Radeon X800-XT Platinum Edition. It worked awesome for the past few years, but now ive been having some trouble on my computer and assume i need a new card. For one, I cannot play 720p videos i download on my computer, as it makes the image jumpy and the audio sync goes out of whack. I have tried every possible codec for this, so I have to assume its my video card (I also have 3gigs ram and a brand new yummy audio card so it shouldnt be those i dont think).
Also, as far as i can tell, the damn thing in all its awesomeness has only Shader version 2.0, which means that newer pc games cant really be played on it.

Here is a link to the specs on the card itself:
(Cant post the link, but if you google the card, the first thing that comes up is a cnet page for review and specs)

Here are my current computer specs:
Windows XP
2.67 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4
ASUSTeK Computer INC. P4S800D-X Rev 1.xx Motherboard
3gb of system memory (it was very cheap 2 years ago, probably not the best)
Razer Barracuda AC-1 Gaming Audio Card

I am already in the process of building a new computer, so the question is, if I need to upgrade my graphics card, what card should i be looking into that will allow me to play newer pc games on pretty high settings, and if you dont think that the 720p video ability is due to my graphics card, what is??

and I do want to specify that if i do upgrade, I am not a 'fanboy' of amd / ati / nvidia and dont really care which to go with, just whatever will be best for the best deal. I will be buying a new mb to go with whatever graphics card i may upgrade to

well you are right that the x800 xt is a great card and for most gamers even today it is still a fine choice. But with newer games already out and taking advantage of the unified architecture of the newer DX10 cards, it really starts to divide things up as to what cards can play newer games at a decent graphics level and performance level, and what cards are simply not worth using in newer games. And over the next few years more and more games will become "unplayable" on older hardware (either due to incompatibility or the fact you cant play anything other than all lows and still struggle )

But at this point your biggest issue is the fact that your stuck on AGP. AGP is pretty much a dead slot as things go today, there are plenty of good AGP cards, but they are over priced. The fastest AGP card you can get today is the $180 Radeon HD3850, performance wise it is going to be well above twice as powerful as your current card. The same card in pci express slot is $130, sometimes as cheap as $99 with rebates. So when you consider the fact that you can put that $80 difference towards a significantly faster cpu, more future proof motherboard, and hell...4gb of ddr2 800 is often dropping into the $65 range with rebates.

So at this point I would certainly consider upgrading the whole system rather than just the video card because upgrading the video card alone may not have as big an impact on performance as you could get with a new cpu and a new video card. If your playing your games at a higher resolutions (ie 1680x1050) then your video card is going to be the most important, but if your playing at 1024x768 or 1280x1024 than your cpu is equally as important. So in the lower resolutions your current cpu is going to hold you back even if you have a really nice video card like that 3850.

And dont think for a second you have to spend a lot of money to get a significantly faster system, hell the $60 celeron e1200 is a dual core chip and even at 1.6ghz it is gunna destroy your 2.6ghz P4, and do so consuming less power and putting out less heat.
Solid boards based on modern chipsets like the intel P35, such as the $80 GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3G, which will support all modern single core, dual core, and quad core LGA 775 processors.
Memory would need to go as well as the memory you use now is 184 pin DDR memory, more modern systems use 240 pin DDR2 or DDR3 memory. 4gb kits (2x2gb) such as this kit from Gskill is as cheap as $75, and offer great quality, performance, and warranty.

So thats $215 for the base of the system that would be faster than your current system and leave you with room to upgrade, and toss in a $100-$150 card such as the Radeon HD3850 or Geforce 9600GT and you are going to destroy your current system in your games and benchmarks

But as a note on HD decoding, your system will probably be replying on software decoding packages which can put huge loads on your cpu and being software driven, they can be very poorly optimized and may not work very well on design. Modern cpu such as the budget dual core chips are perfect for doing hd decoding, but the real shiner comes in with the video card as most of then offer full hardware driven HD decoding right onboard the video card, and that can not only give you smoother performance, but does it with improved visual quality and lower cpu usage (ideal for home theater PCs). ATI and Nvidia both offer this technology a lot of the cards in the series offer HDMI and full audio decoding if you wanted to hook your HDMI equipped tv up to your pc for viewing those HD videos. I cant determine what your current problem is but I can assure you that most new video cards will solve the problem.

My advice would be to simply upgrade the entire system if only so you can stay with a modern socket that isn't going to leave you hanging. Even the cheapest of the cheap you can purchase today will be faster than what your system offers right now, and evne the sub $100 card could out pace your x800, but realistically you would want to look close to the $100-$150 range.

But if you simply can't upgrade the entire system, an AGP HD3850 would provide the HD decoding and strong performance gains (assuming your not cpu limited in modern games), and if you could find an AGP x1950 pro for cheaper, that would put you in a similar position. But really, its not worth it to dump too much money into an older platform.

Stang,

First, I want to mention that I've spent the past four days searching the internet for comprehensive (yet understandable for the novice) information regarding the options of upgrading an AGP system. After reading your response to Don'tCountToday, I was both impressed with your willingness to share your knowledge and your ability to express your message in a clear, concise manner.

While I agree with your position that upgrading the AGP to PCIe is the most logical course, I'm in a position where I simply want to upgrade the Radeon X800XT-PE (256MB) to a Radeon HD3850 (512MB). I'll post my computer specs and follow with my specific questions:

AMD Athlon 64 FX-51 (2.2Ghz)
Radeon X800XT PE
Asus SK8V Motherboard
2 GB Corsair XMS DDR SDRAM PC-3200 Registered ECC
2 x 74GB Western Digital Raptors Serial ATA Raid 0/10,000RPM
420 watt PSU
Windows XP

1. With my system, will I be able to utilize the HD3850?

2. If so, will I see an obvious difference in performance?

3. Will this GPU upgrade allow for Windows Vista/DirectX 10 or 10.1?

Thank you, in advance, for any information you can provide.

Mole

yes and no. yes because that processor is pretty decent. no because the board is agp. l suggest buying a cheap 939 board with pcie on it and using that with a new card. or even going dual core which you would benefit greatly with in newer games

starwarskid91:

Thank you for the quick reply. Please be patient with me as I'm not very experienced with computers as you'll see by my follow-up questions:

If I purchase a 939 board with pcie, will I still use the FX-51 cpu? I'm not quite sure exactly what you're suggesting. Are there boards with both AGP and pcie slots? If so, it begs the question that if I have a board with pcie, should I then buy a Radeon HD 3870 (I think that's a pcie GPU) instead of the HD 3850?

Please understand that my knowledge of current computer technology is extremely limited. If you have time, would you mind spelling out your suggestion so I have a better understanding so I can price items based on your recommendation?

Again, thank you for your timely response.

Mole

SWK perhaps forgets that there are several AGP HD3850s available, newegg has 4 of em, starting at about $150.


Low mole, a lot of what I mentioned too dontcount still actually applies to your current situation, though you are in a better position considering the superior chip and the overall nice system. Though it has been a while since I have seen a socket 940 FX-51, kudos on keeping such a system in working condition
But I will address your specific questions as best I can.

Your system will be able to utilize an AGP HD3850 properly, given the right circumstances. For instance, the HD3850 is FAR superior in every aspect for newer and older games, but the specific games you play and the resolution you play them with is VERY important. Lower resolutions like 1024x768 or 1280x1024 are very cpu limited. In newer games this can cause a bottleneck, but in higher resolutions like 1680x1050 the video card is doing all the work and the processor is less important. Yes the processor still matters, but at higher resolutions the difference between processor A and B (with both systems using the same video card) may only be 5fps, even though processor B is significantly faster and newer than processor A.

So the performance increase you will see is going to depend on the games you play and the resolution you play them at. Of course if you are limited to a lower resolution you can still pump up the AA and increase the detail to get the most out of the video card, and for the most part bottlenecks can be avoided. But thats to a certain point, if we are talking about Crysis, a game that scales well with dual and quad cores, and can tax even the most high end of todays hardware...well your going to be better off than with the x800, but you may not be able to get the most out of the hd3850. If your board supports a socket 940 dual core, such as the Opteron 265 or 270 then that would be worth snagging, but as I recall the SK8V only supported up to the single core opteron 150/250 (2.4ghz) which really wouldnt be a huge step up from where your at right now. So all in all, I would say it is a good upgrade path, even if only use 60% of what the card can really do its still faster than the x800.

The GPU is vista/DX10 ready, but your system likely is not. Though it will run on your system, vista has higher system demands and the OS it self will borrow around 800mb of your system ram just sitting idle. The os itself will also put more stress on your cpu. So even though it will run, given what vista takes and what DX10 gaming requires, it will be slower than running XP, even if you were to run Vista with games in DX9 modes. Beyond that, you still have to consider that vista has a lot of quarks for gamers, and given the age of your system you may even have trouble getting drivers for your system to even function properly in vista. So really...yes it will run, but DX10 right now is rather dirty and even the highest end systems will still suffer a performance hit for minimal graphical gain. As DX10 hardware (and vista) gain more popularity, you will see more and more games taking full advantage of what DX10 offers, but right now with so much of the market on DX9 and sticking with XP, DX10 is a bit of a gimmick.

But also, check your private message folder here on dev, there is a link that may help

Stang:

The private message was very helpful. Thank you for sharing that information with me. (Awesome!)

Your response to my post clarified the information SWK provided earlier in this thread. Also, you answered the Vista/DirectX 10 question for me as well. Thank you.

Based on the recommendations I received, I believe I'm going to seriously consider upgrading the motherboard, CPU, and videocard. I suspect I'll also have to upgrade the PSU too. The total cost (I'd like to spend no more than $400.00...five hundred TOPS!) will determine whether I replace those items or simply opt for the new GPU alone.

Thank you again, Stang and SWK, for taking the time to reply to my questions. Your patience and guidance is greatly appreciated.

Really the biggest issue is that your on a strange platform, originally the FX series were using server sockets (socket 940) and right around that time AMD was launching socket 939 for the mainstream. Essentially it was the same chip but socket 939 didnt require registered memory, and was designed with a few engineering trade offs to cater to the mainstream instead of the server platforms. The FX51 was top dog for about a year, but once 939 picked up speeds to rival the FX51, paired with the fact that memory was half the price, the socket 940 FX series died out and socket 939 got the new FX chips (starting with the FX53).

And not much later socket 939 got another break, that was PCI Express. At this time ATI and Nvidia were transitioning graphics lines from AGP to PCI Express, and most of the server market didn't need high end graphics so Quadro and FireGL products remained AGP/AGP Pro. It wasn't until dual cores came along that socket 940 boards really started packing on PCI Express, and the opterons launched with dual core varients. By this time the chipsets like yours were replaced with offerings from Nvidia (Nforce chipsets) and the older VIA chipsets like yours never really got dual core support (a few boards did, but the older ones lacked support in the form of power delivery and such).

But basically, 939 became the premium socket and socket 754 became mainstream, while the new and improved socket 940 scaled well into the server markets. Socket 939 had pci express and dual core support, 754 was mainly AGP but a few had pci express. Sadly your socket 940 chip is not compatible with socket 939, but had it been...really all you would have needed was a new motherboard and video card.

But all is not lost though, new boards, chips, and memory faster than yours are easy to get at even the tightest budget. Infact the cheapest dual core AMD makes (that most places still stock) is the socket AM2 Athlon64 X2 4400 which is a dual core chip at 2.3ghz, so not only is it dirt cheap at $60 its actually a fair bit faster than what you have now, even if it wasn't a dual core. Socket AM2 motherboards are affordable as well, with solid boards starting as low as $60, and high quality stuff bringing the high end of $150. DDR2 memory is dirt cheap as well, 4gb kits like this nice quality kit from Gskill is only $85, so you double up on the quantity and the raw speed. Of course quality 2gb kits can be had for half that cost. So right there, you have a basic upgrade setting you back at least $150, toss in another $100 for a hd3850 , and your half way through your budget getting SIGNIFICANT performance upgrade.

Of course I should mention AMD is still lacking behind Intel these days, but for this kinda money you do get better value from AMD as the lower end intel chips are not a whole lot better until you start overclocking them, then they can get significantly faster. Chips such as the new $130 E7200 are the new toys, at 2.5ghz and new 45nm technology they tend to overclock very well on your average $100 board with decent ram. But if your banking on overclocking, you do need to spend the money to make it worth your while, but even at 2.5ghz this is a very fast chip and can outpace AMDs offerings that run at 3ghz+. So a nice intel system would set you back a good $130 for the chip, $45-$80 for the ram, and about $100 for a good board, toss in that $100 hd3850 and your looking toward $300 or so.
Powersupply upgrade would be a good idea, and something in the strong 500w range is easy to find in the sub $100 range that will do you justice..

The new GPU alone would certainly stand to improve gaming performance, but the upgrades to the cpu and memory would increase performance in all applications and games, and a new mobo would open up a whole world of future upgrades to the video system. AGP probably wont be seeing any new cards beyond the HD3850, and yet AMD (owner of ATI) is about to release the new ATI Radeon graphics cards late next month, as is Nvidia. So the performance offered by the 3850 is about to be trumped a few times over. Not to mention the fact you can get a pci express hd3850 for as little as $100, where as you'll pay $60-$80 more for the AGP version, which wont leave you with much room to expand. At least with pci express you could toss in another 3850 and run crossfire to improve performance, or take advantage of the newest cards at the time. Simply put, PCI Express is where the graphics card competition lies and thats where the latest and greatest is going to arrive.

Again, not that you entirely need to upgrade the whole system, if what you have is acceptable and you only wish to improve performance in a few of your favorite games then upgrading the GPU alone is probably going to solve your problems.


And I am glad my message helped, I was hoping it would. I'll be sharing it with others once I finish compiling my list.

Hope all my further ranting helps

Stang:

Once again I find myself in awe of your detailed info related to my questions.

Although I'm going to give myself the rest of the weekend to think things over, I'm almost confident that I'm going to follow your recommendation to upgrade the entire system as opposed to the GPU alone.

I was surprised, however, to read that a 500w PSU would be acceptable under the conditions/options you provided. It seems that most boutique gaming rigs push close to 1,000w PSU which may prove overkill for my anticipated project. This was good news as a 5k is much cheaper than the 1k offerings.

The assistance you provided will prove a tremendous guide as I embark on this project. Thanks. I will keep you posted on my progress and may even reach out for opinions on specific items as I prepare to purchase them.

Mole